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	<title>Comments on: GE&#8217;s Jeff Immelt Surprised That Chinese Interests Are Different</title>
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	<link>http://www.chinavortex.com/2010/07/ges-jeff-immelt-surprised-that-chinese-interests-are-different/</link>
	<description>China &#124; Business &#124; Economy &#124; Internet &#124; Technology</description>
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		<title>By: Charles Frith</title>
		<link>http://www.chinavortex.com/2010/07/ges-jeff-immelt-surprised-that-chinese-interests-are-different/comment-page-1/#comment-15609</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Frith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 19:59:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinavortex.com/?p=531#comment-15609</guid>
		<description>Mr Andersen

That&#039;s a much better definition that I wont argue with though I would say that Marx had some interesting things to say about capitalism eating itself too often to provide the stability that populations need.

I&#039;m just saying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Andersen</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a much better definition that I wont argue with though I would say that Marx had some interesting things to say about capitalism eating itself too often to provide the stability that populations need.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m just saying.</p>
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		<title>By: G.E. Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.chinavortex.com/2010/07/ges-jeff-immelt-surprised-that-chinese-interests-are-different/comment-page-1/#comment-15597</link>
		<dc:creator>G.E. Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinavortex.com/?p=531#comment-15597</guid>
		<description>Mr. Frith,

&quot;All China is doing is exercising competitive advantage wherever it can.&quot;

Precisely.  And the sooner the US realizes that, the sooner the US can start to consider its own industrial policy that favors US companies and US workers.

Right now, China and the US are both playing for a win-win.  Unfortunately our definitions of win-win are not the same.  To the Chinese, it means they get to win twice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Frith,</p>
<p>&#8220;All China is doing is exercising competitive advantage wherever it can.&#8221;</p>
<p>Precisely.  And the sooner the US realizes that, the sooner the US can start to consider its own industrial policy that favors US companies and US workers.</p>
<p>Right now, China and the US are both playing for a win-win.  Unfortunately our definitions of win-win are not the same.  To the Chinese, it means they get to win twice.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Frith</title>
		<link>http://www.chinavortex.com/2010/07/ges-jeff-immelt-surprised-that-chinese-interests-are-different/comment-page-1/#comment-15567</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Frith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 08:05:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinavortex.com/?p=531#comment-15567</guid>
		<description>Mr Anderson (Delayed reply but still an interesting topic)

There is no greater trade fiddle then printing dollars (quantitative easing) The US gets to do this with impunity because it&#039;s the default global currency. Not because its finances are ship shape.

All China is doing is exercising competitive advantage wherever it can. The US would like to think it&#039;s benign but then the propensity for it to forget what is largely seen as manipulation is only exceeded by the scale with which it exercises that manipulation.

Our greatest delusion is tying in freedom with prosperity and concluding that we;re all good. We&#039;re not.

The last to know it are the Americans and I&#039;d argue the British.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Anderson (Delayed reply but still an interesting topic)</p>
<p>There is no greater trade fiddle then printing dollars (quantitative easing) The US gets to do this with impunity because it&#8217;s the default global currency. Not because its finances are ship shape.</p>
<p>All China is doing is exercising competitive advantage wherever it can. The US would like to think it&#8217;s benign but then the propensity for it to forget what is largely seen as manipulation is only exceeded by the scale with which it exercises that manipulation.</p>
<p>Our greatest delusion is tying in freedom with prosperity and concluding that we;re all good. We&#8217;re not.</p>
<p>The last to know it are the Americans and I&#8217;d argue the British.</p>
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		<title>By: G.E. Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.chinavortex.com/2010/07/ges-jeff-immelt-surprised-that-chinese-interests-are-different/comment-page-1/#comment-15407</link>
		<dc:creator>G.E. Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 14:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinavortex.com/?p=531#comment-15407</guid>
		<description>Sorry, Mr. Frith, but I&#039;ll have to disagree with you when it comes to the topic of Mr. Denlinger&#039;s article.  The point is that China not only has exemptions to WTO rules built into their accession agreement, but that China has managed to find and exploit many loopholes.

China has been taking advantage of US gullibility over free trade for decades and laughing all the way to the bank while many in the US cling to the doctrines of neoliberal economics.

The United States has had a long succession of Presidents who buy this theory, each of whom has professed his faith that trade with China would eventually pay dividends, not only in terms of trade, but politically as well.

While I don&#039;t disagree that the US often looks out for its own interest around the world (a couple of recent wars come to mind), when it comes to business relationships with China (again, the topic of this article), the US has taken a very liberal approach.

China, as you astutely point out, is a textbook picture of realism.  But the thing about realists is that they assume everyone else is a realist.  Their assumption is that the US does not buy its own liberal rhetoric, but is instead using it to try to take advantage of China.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Mr. Frith, but I&#8217;ll have to disagree with you when it comes to the topic of Mr. Denlinger&#8217;s article.  The point is that China not only has exemptions to WTO rules built into their accession agreement, but that China has managed to find and exploit many loopholes.</p>
<p>China has been taking advantage of US gullibility over free trade for decades and laughing all the way to the bank while many in the US cling to the doctrines of neoliberal economics.</p>
<p>The United States has had a long succession of Presidents who buy this theory, each of whom has professed his faith that trade with China would eventually pay dividends, not only in terms of trade, but politically as well.</p>
<p>While I don&#8217;t disagree that the US often looks out for its own interest around the world (a couple of recent wars come to mind), when it comes to business relationships with China (again, the topic of this article), the US has taken a very liberal approach.</p>
<p>China, as you astutely point out, is a textbook picture of realism.  But the thing about realists is that they assume everyone else is a realist.  Their assumption is that the US does not buy its own liberal rhetoric, but is instead using it to try to take advantage of China.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Frith</title>
		<link>http://www.chinavortex.com/2010/07/ges-jeff-immelt-surprised-that-chinese-interests-are-different/comment-page-1/#comment-15406</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Frith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinavortex.com/?p=531#comment-15406</guid>
		<description>OK Mr Anderson, I think the wider picture is that free trade constitutes only one segment of the entire historical relationship between the US and the far East. If we ignore that the US has endless trade agreements outside the usual &#039;fair&#039;s fair&#039; framework with the far East then  we&#039;re missing how power really operates. Look no further than the &#039;special&#039; relationships the US enjoyed with Taiwan, South Korea, Thailand to achieve its military aims. The reason why Bangkok has the largest US embassy in SE Asia is Vietnam. Ipso facto Baghdad repeats the formula.


Free trade agreements are just one element of how the dealer dealers and the reality is that  self interest is the legacy the US leaves behind.

 China knows that.

 China would laugh at any other suggestion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK Mr Anderson, I think the wider picture is that free trade constitutes only one segment of the entire historical relationship between the US and the far East. If we ignore that the US has endless trade agreements outside the usual &#8216;fair&#8217;s fair&#8217; framework with the far East then  we&#8217;re missing how power really operates. Look no further than the &#8216;special&#8217; relationships the US enjoyed with Taiwan, South Korea, Thailand to achieve its military aims. The reason why Bangkok has the largest US embassy in SE Asia is Vietnam. Ipso facto Baghdad repeats the formula.</p>
<p>Free trade agreements are just one element of how the dealer dealers and the reality is that  self interest is the legacy the US leaves behind.</p>
<p> China knows that.</p>
<p> China would laugh at any other suggestion.</p>
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		<title>By: Panda lover</title>
		<link>http://www.chinavortex.com/2010/07/ges-jeff-immelt-surprised-that-chinese-interests-are-different/comment-page-1/#comment-15383</link>
		<dc:creator>Panda lover</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 03:37:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinavortex.com/?p=531#comment-15383</guid>
		<description>Could this be the start of another round of trade wars reminisce of the Japanese in the 80s? All I hear in Chinese media is that how China will not follow the Japanese footpaths but I fail to see how they can avoid the double whammy of inflation and falling demand. I do agree with the low carbon technologies though, still anticipating BYD to unveil their world beater all electric vehicle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could this be the start of another round of trade wars reminisce of the Japanese in the 80s? All I hear in Chinese media is that how China will not follow the Japanese footpaths but I fail to see how they can avoid the double whammy of inflation and falling demand. I do agree with the low carbon technologies though, still anticipating BYD to unveil their world beater all electric vehicle.</p>
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		<title>By: G.E. Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.chinavortex.com/2010/07/ges-jeff-immelt-surprised-that-chinese-interests-are-different/comment-page-1/#comment-15372</link>
		<dc:creator>G.E. Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jul 2010 00:40:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinavortex.com/?p=531#comment-15372</guid>
		<description>@CharlesFrith,

Point taken.  I do acknowledge above that the US often talks out of both sides of its mouth regarding trade.

My point is that, at least in the East Asian region (which is the only region of the world I will claim to know anything about), the US has long endured largely unequal terms of trade.

The US has done this mostly on faith that others would play the game by similar rules.  When everyone buys Ricardo&#039;s theory of comparative advantage, everyone wins -- but not everyone gets to have, for example, an auto industry.

Clearly the dynamic economies of East Asia don&#039;t buy Ricardo&#039;s theory.  They&#039;ve always viewed the international division of labor as a hierarchy, and they&#039;ve had no intention of remaining poor and agrarian.  And can we really blame them?

If everyone else plays to win, I don&#039;t see why the US can&#039;t.  That seems to be the source of frustration behind Immelt&#039;s comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@CharlesFrith,</p>
<p>Point taken.  I do acknowledge above that the US often talks out of both sides of its mouth regarding trade.</p>
<p>My point is that, at least in the East Asian region (which is the only region of the world I will claim to know anything about), the US has long endured largely unequal terms of trade.</p>
<p>The US has done this mostly on faith that others would play the game by similar rules.  When everyone buys Ricardo&#8217;s theory of comparative advantage, everyone wins &#8212; but not everyone gets to have, for example, an auto industry.</p>
<p>Clearly the dynamic economies of East Asia don&#8217;t buy Ricardo&#8217;s theory.  They&#8217;ve always viewed the international division of labor as a hierarchy, and they&#8217;ve had no intention of remaining poor and agrarian.  And can we really blame them?</p>
<p>If everyone else plays to win, I don&#8217;t see why the US can&#8217;t.  That seems to be the source of frustration behind Immelt&#8217;s comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Frith</title>
		<link>http://www.chinavortex.com/2010/07/ges-jeff-immelt-surprised-that-chinese-interests-are-different/comment-page-1/#comment-15369</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Frith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jul 2010 23:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinavortex.com/?p=531#comment-15369</guid>
		<description>I disagree with your view that the US wishes everybody to be its friend. That&#039;s the sort of opinion I&#039;d expect to see shaping the population&#039;s thinking from the WSJ or NYT.

Look no further than Confessions of an economic hitman to see both how the US really operates and how the much of the worlds economies to suffer hardship see how the game is played.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree with your view that the US wishes everybody to be its friend. That&#8217;s the sort of opinion I&#8217;d expect to see shaping the population&#8217;s thinking from the WSJ or NYT.</p>
<p>Look no further than Confessions of an economic hitman to see both how the US really operates and how the much of the worlds economies to suffer hardship see how the game is played.</p>
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		<title>By: G.E. Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.chinavortex.com/2010/07/ges-jeff-immelt-surprised-that-chinese-interests-are-different/comment-page-1/#comment-15363</link>
		<dc:creator>G.E. Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jul 2010 18:12:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinavortex.com/?p=531#comment-15363</guid>
		<description>Ooops!  Forgot to fill in my identifying information before posting my comment above.  Sorry!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooops!  Forgot to fill in my identifying information before posting my comment above.  Sorry!</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.chinavortex.com/2010/07/ges-jeff-immelt-surprised-that-chinese-interests-are-different/comment-page-1/#comment-15362</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jul 2010 18:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinavortex.com/?p=531#comment-15362</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure whether this was Immelt&#039;s real intention, but what this points out very clearly is a major difference between China and the West, or at least the US.

While China is by no means a monolithic entity, Beijing has done a remarkable job at determining what they want to get out of their relations with the rest of the world and pursuing those interests with laser-like focus.

The US, on the other hand, looks like the kid on the playground who just wants to be everyone&#039;s friend when it comes to trade policy.  US administrations, and the businesses who put them into office, have all swallowed neoliberal economics to such a degree that they never question their commitment to &quot;free trade&quot;.

This is not to say that &quot;free trade&quot; is a bad thing, but it is bad when one side remains largely committed to it while the other does not.  (And, yes, there are still areas in which the US talks out of both sides of its mouth on this issue.)

The US pushed to get China into the WTO hoping for a couple of things that they didn&#039;t bother to get in writing.  First, they hoped that China would eventually decide to abandon its trade restrictions (and there are many of them) that aren&#039;t covered under the WTO agreement.  They haven&#039;t.

And second, the US has continued to support openness to trade with China in the hopes that economic growth in China would lead to political liberalization, which it hasn&#039;t.

The last sentence of your article sums up the argument perfectly:  indeed, if only the US taxpayer had someone in Washington looking out for their interests in the way that the Communist Party looks out for its interests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure whether this was Immelt&#8217;s real intention, but what this points out very clearly is a major difference between China and the West, or at least the US.</p>
<p>While China is by no means a monolithic entity, Beijing has done a remarkable job at determining what they want to get out of their relations with the rest of the world and pursuing those interests with laser-like focus.</p>
<p>The US, on the other hand, looks like the kid on the playground who just wants to be everyone&#8217;s friend when it comes to trade policy.  US administrations, and the businesses who put them into office, have all swallowed neoliberal economics to such a degree that they never question their commitment to &#8220;free trade&#8221;.</p>
<p>This is not to say that &#8220;free trade&#8221; is a bad thing, but it is bad when one side remains largely committed to it while the other does not.  (And, yes, there are still areas in which the US talks out of both sides of its mouth on this issue.)</p>
<p>The US pushed to get China into the WTO hoping for a couple of things that they didn&#8217;t bother to get in writing.  First, they hoped that China would eventually decide to abandon its trade restrictions (and there are many of them) that aren&#8217;t covered under the WTO agreement.  They haven&#8217;t.</p>
<p>And second, the US has continued to support openness to trade with China in the hopes that economic growth in China would lead to political liberalization, which it hasn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>The last sentence of your article sums up the argument perfectly:  indeed, if only the US taxpayer had someone in Washington looking out for their interests in the way that the Communist Party looks out for its interests.</p>
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