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	<title>Comments on: Let&#8217;s See How Many Ways We Can Get This Wrong</title>
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	<link>http://www.chinavortex.com/2008/05/lets-see-how-many-ways-we-can-get-this-wrong/</link>
	<description>China &#124; Business &#124; Economy &#124; Internet &#124; Technology</description>
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		<title>By: Remembering the 5/12 Earthquake Victims &#124; The China Vortex</title>
		<link>http://www.chinavortex.com/2008/05/lets-see-how-many-ways-we-can-get-this-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-9035</link>
		<dc:creator>Remembering the 5/12 Earthquake Victims &#124; The China Vortex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 04:03:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinavortex.com/?p=210#comment-9035</guid>
		<description>[...] China&#8217;s Search Log Displays Moment of Mourning Let&#8217;s See How Many Ways We Can Get This Wrong  Tianya BBS Provides Platform Connecting Sichuan Earthquake Victims, Volunteer [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] China&#8217;s Search Log Displays Moment of Mourning Let&#8217;s See How Many Ways We Can Get This Wrong  Tianya BBS Provides Platform Connecting Sichuan Earthquake Victims, Volunteer [...]</p>
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		<title>By: kommune</title>
		<link>http://www.chinavortex.com/2008/05/lets-see-how-many-ways-we-can-get-this-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-2186</link>
		<dc:creator>kommune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 02:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinavortex.com/?p=210#comment-2186</guid>
		<description>given the miserable state of my mandarin, i my knowledge of what goes on in the chinese media is the china daily, and the &quot;second hand&quot; conversations with colleagues, journalists and editors.

and while there have been no overt &quot;attacks&quot; on specific western governments coming from chinese, they&#039;ve (and rather cleverly i think), syndicated negative commentary for reprint and discussion.

&quot;too busy moving forward&quot; is a generous statement i should think, but it&#039;ll serve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>given the miserable state of my mandarin, i my knowledge of what goes on in the chinese media is the china daily, and the &#8220;second hand&#8221; conversations with colleagues, journalists and editors.</p>
<p>and while there have been no overt &#8220;attacks&#8221; on specific western governments coming from chinese, they&#8217;ve (and rather cleverly i think), syndicated negative commentary for reprint and discussion.</p>
<p>&#8220;too busy moving forward&#8221; is a generous statement i should think, but it&#8217;ll serve.</p>
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		<title>By: winserzhao</title>
		<link>http://www.chinavortex.com/2008/05/lets-see-how-many-ways-we-can-get-this-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-2185</link>
		<dc:creator>winserzhao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 02:03:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinavortex.com/?p=210#comment-2185</guid>
		<description>@John LOL,your conclusion: we are busy moving forward. indeed,we need develop our country in many fields. education,economic, military and politic system. yeah, we really have something to do. we are still a developing country. there are many problems still not solved yet. if you admit this backgrounds,you will be calm down. we need criticizes. but we dont need malice attack. it is no use for mutual development. thanks Paul,give us a dialague on the China-west.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@John LOL,your conclusion: we are busy moving forward. indeed,we need develop our country in many fields. education,economic, military and politic system. yeah, we really have something to do. we are still a developing country. there are many problems still not solved yet. if you admit this backgrounds,you will be calm down. we need criticizes. but we dont need malice attack. it is no use for mutual development. thanks Paul,give us a dialague on the China-west.</p>
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		<title>By: John Carter</title>
		<link>http://www.chinavortex.com/2008/05/lets-see-how-many-ways-we-can-get-this-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-2183</link>
		<dc:creator>John Carter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 14:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinavortex.com/?p=210#comment-2183</guid>
		<description>Great article, with just a few minor factual mistakes.

My spin?  I live in China and have taught at a small college in Guangdong for the past three years.

First, let&#039;s talk about this &quot;autocratic&quot; government.  It&#039;s anything but.  This is no miliary junta.  It is a representative government, elected, I grant, by people who are qualified, both by talent and desire, by members of the Communist Party.  It represents every facet of sciety and all ethnic groups.  Best I can tell, leaders respond to the needs of all these elements and, again, best I can tell, they respond in an appropriate manner.  Things come up from the bottom and they are dealt with at the top.

And they do respond.  The Sichuan Disaster, which is ongoing as I write, is an example.  Volumes will be written about this disaster and how the Chinese government, military, police, volunteers and ordinary people have marshalled resources and imposed their will on this most horrible of earthquakes.  Did I mind three minutes of silence.  I took my kids out to the flagpole in front of my teaching building and wept with them.

A short lesson in political science: China is a sovereign country, with borders and laws by which it is governed.  As an expat, I have no problem with any of these laws as they seem reasonable, given the circumstances.  If you don&#039;t like the laws, you are free to leave.  If you stay, muffle the criticism.  It serves no purpose.  If you want AM Talk Radio, go somewhere you can have it 24-hours a day.  

I like this country and have been here long enough to be close to Chinese citizens.  I have taught 600 of their college kids.  On the subject of &quot;mutual suspicion,&quot; I have never heard, seen or read one word of criticism of the USA.  Why do I read every day criticism, actual and veiled, of China?  Let me suggest three reasons:  The first is our general cynicism about anyone anywhere else and the need of the media for &quot;software&quot; to fill all that time and print; The second is fear, which I think is unfounded.  The third is envy, because it seems to be working.

Why don&#039;t the Chinese criticise us?  They&#039;re too busy moving forward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article, with just a few minor factual mistakes.</p>
<p>My spin?  I live in China and have taught at a small college in Guangdong for the past three years.</p>
<p>First, let&#8217;s talk about this &#8220;autocratic&#8221; government.  It&#8217;s anything but.  This is no miliary junta.  It is a representative government, elected, I grant, by people who are qualified, both by talent and desire, by members of the Communist Party.  It represents every facet of sciety and all ethnic groups.  Best I can tell, leaders respond to the needs of all these elements and, again, best I can tell, they respond in an appropriate manner.  Things come up from the bottom and they are dealt with at the top.</p>
<p>And they do respond.  The Sichuan Disaster, which is ongoing as I write, is an example.  Volumes will be written about this disaster and how the Chinese government, military, police, volunteers and ordinary people have marshalled resources and imposed their will on this most horrible of earthquakes.  Did I mind three minutes of silence.  I took my kids out to the flagpole in front of my teaching building and wept with them.</p>
<p>A short lesson in political science: China is a sovereign country, with borders and laws by which it is governed.  As an expat, I have no problem with any of these laws as they seem reasonable, given the circumstances.  If you don&#8217;t like the laws, you are free to leave.  If you stay, muffle the criticism.  It serves no purpose.  If you want AM Talk Radio, go somewhere you can have it 24-hours a day.  </p>
<p>I like this country and have been here long enough to be close to Chinese citizens.  I have taught 600 of their college kids.  On the subject of &#8220;mutual suspicion,&#8221; I have never heard, seen or read one word of criticism of the USA.  Why do I read every day criticism, actual and veiled, of China?  Let me suggest three reasons:  The first is our general cynicism about anyone anywhere else and the need of the media for &#8220;software&#8221; to fill all that time and print; The second is fear, which I think is unfounded.  The third is envy, because it seems to be working.</p>
<p>Why don&#8217;t the Chinese criticise us?  They&#8217;re too busy moving forward.</p>
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		<title>By: kommune</title>
		<link>http://www.chinavortex.com/2008/05/lets-see-how-many-ways-we-can-get-this-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-2177</link>
		<dc:creator>kommune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 03:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinavortex.com/?p=210#comment-2177</guid>
		<description>@noprop
the problem, of course, is that there is no such thing as &quot;no propaganda&quot; or political &quot;truth&quot;. following pierre&#039;s point, a few people put forward some &quot;generally accepted principles&quot;, while (and this i&#039;ve added) the rest of us work ceaselessly to circumvent, nullify or otherwise render irrelevent these principles. 

it&#039;s a carefully cultivated illusion. all governments (hell, all human beings) have an agenda which they advance, usually to the detriment of another. the Chinese living under authoritarian rule have no illusions about their ability to peacefully influence policy. the average flag waving democracy advocate is full of these illusions. five years of protest later, at home and abroad, there&#039;s still a war in iraq (this, despite one of the vaunted &quot;free elections&quot; having taken place). from the outside looking in, we can only concede that either the war in iraq has the support of a (slim) majority of americans (and the revulsion of the rest of the world), or that democracy is broken.

the Truth is that even if there is &quot;truth&quot; in politics, hundreds of millions of dollars are spent each year - by politicians and corporations who have vested interest in policy - to subvert the process of democracy and limit the freedom of information. they can do this, because... hey, that&#039;s the failsafe that&#039;s been built into modern democracy. nothing has changed. information is the fuel that powers governments.

and where the internet has created a market for the free exchange of ideas, the dumbing power of poor education, news-entertainment and infomercials ensures the democratic people of the world continue to ignore geopolitical issues, and focus instead on consumption, britney&#039;s on-again-off-again hair (on both ends) and how evil jeremiah wright is. brave new world indeed.

four legs good, two legs bad. four legs good, two legs bhaaaaaad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@noprop<br />
the problem, of course, is that there is no such thing as &#8220;no propaganda&#8221; or political &#8220;truth&#8221;. following pierre&#8217;s point, a few people put forward some &#8220;generally accepted principles&#8221;, while (and this i&#8217;ve added) the rest of us work ceaselessly to circumvent, nullify or otherwise render irrelevent these principles. </p>
<p>it&#8217;s a carefully cultivated illusion. all governments (hell, all human beings) have an agenda which they advance, usually to the detriment of another. the Chinese living under authoritarian rule have no illusions about their ability to peacefully influence policy. the average flag waving democracy advocate is full of these illusions. five years of protest later, at home and abroad, there&#8217;s still a war in iraq (this, despite one of the vaunted &#8220;free elections&#8221; having taken place). from the outside looking in, we can only concede that either the war in iraq has the support of a (slim) majority of americans (and the revulsion of the rest of the world), or that democracy is broken.</p>
<p>the Truth is that even if there is &#8220;truth&#8221; in politics, hundreds of millions of dollars are spent each year &#8211; by politicians and corporations who have vested interest in policy &#8211; to subvert the process of democracy and limit the freedom of information. they can do this, because&#8230; hey, that&#8217;s the failsafe that&#8217;s been built into modern democracy. nothing has changed. information is the fuel that powers governments.</p>
<p>and where the internet has created a market for the free exchange of ideas, the dumbing power of poor education, news-entertainment and infomercials ensures the democratic people of the world continue to ignore geopolitical issues, and focus instead on consumption, britney&#8217;s on-again-off-again hair (on both ends) and how evil jeremiah wright is. brave new world indeed.</p>
<p>four legs good, two legs bad. four legs good, two legs bhaaaaaad.</p>
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		<title>By: Global Voices Online &#187; China: Q&#38;A with Premier Wen</title>
		<link>http://www.chinavortex.com/2008/05/lets-see-how-many-ways-we-can-get-this-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-2161</link>
		<dc:creator>Global Voices Online &#187; China: Q&#38;A with Premier Wen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 09:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinavortex.com/?p=210#comment-2161</guid>
		<description>[...] the Chinese internet moved out of its three-day mourning period earlier this week following the 5.12 earthquake, many questions remain to be [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the Chinese internet moved out of its three-day mourning period earlier this week following the 5.12 earthquake, many questions remain to be [...]</p>
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		<title>By: paul denlinger asks: &#8220;can&#8217;t we all just get along?&#8221; &#124; CHINA ESQUIRE</title>
		<link>http://www.chinavortex.com/2008/05/lets-see-how-many-ways-we-can-get-this-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-2156</link>
		<dc:creator>paul denlinger asks: &#8220;can&#8217;t we all just get along?&#8221; &#124; CHINA ESQUIRE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 13:11:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinavortex.com/?p=210#comment-2156</guid>
		<description>[...] from the Rodney King Riots in the 1990&#8217;s seems to apply today so well. I wanted to highlight a piece by Paul Denlinger at China Vortex this weekend, partially because I enjoyed it, and partially because it ignited a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] from the Rodney King Riots in the 1990&#8217;s seems to apply today so well. I wanted to highlight a piece by Paul Denlinger at China Vortex this weekend, partially because I enjoyed it, and partially because it ignited a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre-Philippe Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.chinavortex.com/2008/05/lets-see-how-many-ways-we-can-get-this-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-2148</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre-Philippe Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 08:33:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinavortex.com/?p=210#comment-2148</guid>
		<description>@noprogoganda I trust you were referring to the &quot;last but one&quot; post ;)

Pierre-Philippe Martins last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://ppmartin.wordpress.com/2008/05/24/la-time-laps/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Time Lapse video of Los Angeles&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@noprogoganda I trust you were referring to the &#8220;last but one&#8221; post <img src='http://www.chinavortex.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Pierre-Philippe Martins last blog post..<a href="http://ppmartin.wordpress.com/2008/05/24/la-time-laps/" rel="nofollow">Time Lapse video of Los Angeles</a></p>
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		<title>By: Nopropoganda</title>
		<link>http://www.chinavortex.com/2008/05/lets-see-how-many-ways-we-can-get-this-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-2146</link>
		<dc:creator>Nopropoganda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 04:52:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinavortex.com/?p=210#comment-2146</guid>
		<description>That last post is the perfect example of freedom of speech being wasted on idiots.  I&#039;d rather be part of the &quot;windbag&quot; (which is OK as a long as it says the truth) than an authoritarian government that tells its people how to mourn....three minutes or so a day is one thing but it shouldn&#039;t cut anything off to its population.  The overall reaction to that dumb order is actually much less than it should have been.  If there&#039;s one thing the media in this country gets right, it&#039;s that the Chinese government is not a friend of the West and it probably won&#039;t ever be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That last post is the perfect example of freedom of speech being wasted on idiots.  I&#8217;d rather be part of the &#8220;windbag&#8221; (which is OK as a long as it says the truth) than an authoritarian government that tells its people how to mourn&#8230;.three minutes or so a day is one thing but it shouldn&#8217;t cut anything off to its population.  The overall reaction to that dumb order is actually much less than it should have been.  If there&#8217;s one thing the media in this country gets right, it&#8217;s that the Chinese government is not a friend of the West and it probably won&#8217;t ever be.</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre-Philippe Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.chinavortex.com/2008/05/lets-see-how-many-ways-we-can-get-this-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-2145</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre-Philippe Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 03:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chinavortex.com/?p=210#comment-2145</guid>
		<description>@kommune We are in agreement that there is no ideal political system on this planet. What is important is to relentlessly keep highlighting good and bad events or systems whenever (and wherever) you see / feel it, so as to &quot;nudge&quot; things forward. Obviously, the limitation to the &quot;Vox Populi Vox Dei&quot; principle is that, while it&#039;s sometimes good to be able to change a government via general elections, &quot;mobs&quot; are generally not conducive of good outcomes. It&#039;s a little bit like accounting, where specialists talk about &quot;Generally Accepted (Accounting) Principles&quot;, but with such principles evolving with time and place: the same can probably be said about politics and society.

Pierre-Philippe Martins last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://ppmartin.wordpress.com/2008/05/21/sadest-picture/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Sadest picture&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@kommune We are in agreement that there is no ideal political system on this planet. What is important is to relentlessly keep highlighting good and bad events or systems whenever (and wherever) you see / feel it, so as to &#8220;nudge&#8221; things forward. Obviously, the limitation to the &#8220;Vox Populi Vox Dei&#8221; principle is that, while it&#8217;s sometimes good to be able to change a government via general elections, &#8220;mobs&#8221; are generally not conducive of good outcomes. It&#8217;s a little bit like accounting, where specialists talk about &#8220;Generally Accepted (Accounting) Principles&#8221;, but with such principles evolving with time and place: the same can probably be said about politics and society.</p>
<p>Pierre-Philippe Martins last blog post..<a href="http://ppmartin.wordpress.com/2008/05/21/sadest-picture/" rel="nofollow">Sadest picture</a></p>
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